Mark Rothko, No. 3/No. 13, 1949발음듣기
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Mark Rothko, No. 3/No. 13, 1949
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Mark Rothko, No. 3/No. 13, 1949
Steven: We're in the museum of modern art and we're on the 4th floor in the rooms devoted to abstract expressionism and we're standing in front of Mark Rothko's No. 3/No. 13 which dates to 1949.
Beth: Those abstract expressionists love to not name their paintings in fact, it's sort of a modernist problem.
Steven: It is, it is.
Beth: Composition number...blah.
Steven: Well, they didn't want to close down meaning, right?
Beth: I understand, that ambiguity is incredibly important for artists in the 20th century.
Steven: It is.
But I think the weird No. 3/No. 13 part I wonder if that has to do with the curators trying to figure out really what this thing was called and not being sure about it.
Beth: Yeah, that could be it.
Steven: I have no idea, actually.
Beth: You know, it's interesting cause Rothko is an artist that even at a time when I a little bit put off by abstract painting I always loved the Rothko's They have a kind of brooding heaviness about them.
Steven: A gorgeous melancholy.
Beth: Yeah!
And I don't think I even knew why it made me feel that way.
Steven: I think Rothko would have been really, really happy to hear you say that I think Rothko really wanted people, in fact, I seem to remember a quote where he said if people understood his paintings, they would be in tears before them.
Beth: Yeah, I think it did that to me.
Steven: There's something wonderful solemn and, almost the kind of feeling you sometimes get when you look at stained glass windows in a Gothic cathedral Yeah, there's something incredibly, sort of, awesome about it.
Beth: And so, what is it that evokes those feelings, really You know, it's a lot of things It's the "horizontality" it's the way that the forms are, sort of, behind and in front and have no edges and kind of hover.
Steven: Until you said, "no edges" and "hover", it sounded like you were talking about a Mondrian.
Beth: Yeah, but, also there's that kind of way you can kind of see underneath the paint and you know sometimes it comes in front It's a kind of incompleteness, and...
Steven: A kind of finding, it's a process, right?
You can feel almost Rothko's efforts to find his way through this and you know there's...
Beth: Now you sound like we're talking about a "Cezanne"
Steven: Oh that's interesting.
But I think there are elements of "Cezanne" and "Mondrian" here which is not what you would think of at first.
Beth: No.
Steven: I think that these are paintings that as you were saying that, you were moving your hands back and forth and I think that this is exactly right.
It took me a while to figure this out about Rothko but I think that these are paintings about space rather than color I mean, color is important, obviously and color is gorgeous These are forms, these almost clouds of forms that exist in some sort of space of their own construction.
Beth: That makes sense.
Steven: And it's interesting when you said the "horizontality" because they are horizontal paintings, even though...
Beth: In that, it's a vertical image.
Steven: The canvas is vertical.
Beth: Yeah.
Steven: But they create an occupy space in a very important way and the heaviness of that black form, that sort of cloud of black rectangle soft at its edges.
Beth: So ominous.
Steven: And because it's high it's center of gravity is ever more powerful, do you see what I mean?
Beth: Well, I feel like almost it pulls me into it.
Steven: It does, right.
Beth: Is that what you mean by the?
Steven: Yeah, well I think so, but it also presses down vertically on the cream white below, the line of dark blackness below that and the green below that, absolutely.
Beth: It's oppressive.
Steven: This is kind of incredible luminosity that exists here but actually according to some conservators, Rothko's colors have lost a lot of their edge and I wonder what they would have looked like, even been more luminous.
Beth: They're very vivid.
Steven: So, this notion that one's not after a sort of finished product but that these are process-oriented paintings you know the famous term that Rosenberg used was "Action Painting"
we don't usually think about that term in relationship to Rothko because there's a kind of centrality and a kind of balance that's...
Beth: Well, and when you think of action you think about Pallega, you know, leaning over the...
Steven: But I think there is a kind of "provisional-ness" and a process of finding, I think you're absolutely right, which is very much tied to the artist and his experience in the making of this canvas and I think that the "authentic-ness" of the canvas can really be embedded in that notion.
Beth: Of finding, of the artist exploring.
Steven: Finding and feeling, yeah I think that's exactly right, you know it's interesting, because...
Beth: So, there's a kind of turn toward the psyche of the artist.
Steven: Exactly right, this is an expression of the interior but, sort of funny, is that in the next generation some artists will begin to disavow that.
Beth: Complete rejection of that.
Steven: Right, because this is seen as a kind of psycho-analytic heroism growing out of the European surrealism, etc.
Growing out of Jung, out of Freud but in a kind of purely American idiom, native American kind of scale this sort of grandeur and space.
Beth: Right, so use Warhol as a kind of reaction to the soup cans.
Steven: Absolutely, or Rauschenberger, even Jasper.
Beth: That sort of statement that art is about, is not about some kind of inner psychic state, right.
Steven: But, this is in some ways a very beautiful and expressive kind of romanticism in that way, isn't it?
Beth: I think so.
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Steven: We're in the museum of modern art and we're on the 4th floor in the rooms devoted to abstract expressionism and we're standing in front of Mark Rothko's No. 3/No. 13 which dates to 1949.발음듣기
대기중
Beth: Those abstract expressionists love to not name their paintings in fact, it's sort of a modernist problem.발음듣기
대기중
But I think the weird No. 3/No. 13 part I wonder if that has to do with the curators trying to figure out really what this thing was called and not being sure about it.발음듣기
대기중
Beth: You know, it's interesting cause Rothko is an artist that even at a time when I a little bit put off by abstract painting I always loved the Rothko's They have a kind of brooding heaviness about them.발음듣기
대기중
Steven: I think Rothko would have been really, really happy to hear you say that I think Rothko really wanted people, in fact, I seem to remember a quote where he said if people understood his paintings, they would be in tears before them.발음듣기
대기중
Steven: There's something wonderful solemn and, almost the kind of feeling you sometimes get when you look at stained glass windows in a Gothic cathedral Yeah, there's something incredibly, sort of, awesome about it.발음듣기
대기중
Beth: And so, what is it that evokes those feelings, really You know, it's a lot of things It's the "horizontality" it's the way that the forms are, sort of, behind and in front and have no edges and kind of hover.발음듣기
대기중
Steven: Until you said, "no edges" and "hover", it sounded like you were talking about a Mondrian.발음듣기
대기중
Beth: Yeah, but, also there's that kind of way you can kind of see underneath the paint and you know sometimes it comes in front It's a kind of incompleteness, and...발음듣기
대기중
But I think there are elements of "Cezanne" and "Mondrian" here which is not what you would think of at first.발음듣기
대기중
Steven: I think that these are paintings that as you were saying that, you were moving your hands back and forth and I think that this is exactly right.발음듣기
대기중
It took me a while to figure this out about Rothko but I think that these are paintings about space rather than color I mean, color is important, obviously and color is gorgeous These are forms, these almost clouds of forms that exist in some sort of space of their own construction.발음듣기
대기중
Steven: And it's interesting when you said the "horizontality" because they are horizontal paintings, even though...발음듣기
대기중
Steven: But they create an occupy space in a very important way and the heaviness of that black form, that sort of cloud of black rectangle soft at its edges.발음듣기
대기중
Steven: And because it's high it's center of gravity is ever more powerful, do you see what I mean?발음듣기
대기중
Steven: Yeah, well I think so, but it also presses down vertically on the cream white below, the line of dark blackness below that and the green below that, absolutely.발음듣기
대기중
Steven: This is kind of incredible luminosity that exists here but actually according to some conservators, Rothko's colors have lost a lot of their edge and I wonder what they would have looked like, even been more luminous.발음듣기
대기중
Steven: So, this notion that one's not after a sort of finished product but that these are process-oriented paintings you know the famous term that Rosenberg used was "Action Painting"발음듣기
대기중
we don't usually think about that term in relationship to Rothko because there's a kind of centrality and a kind of balance that's...발음듣기
대기중
Beth: Well, and when you think of action you think about Pallega, you know, leaning over the...발음듣기
대기중
Steven: But I think there is a kind of "provisional-ness" and a process of finding, I think you're absolutely right, which is very much tied to the artist and his experience in the making of this canvas and I think that the "authentic-ness" of the canvas can really be embedded in that notion.발음듣기
대기중
Steven: Finding and feeling, yeah I think that's exactly right, you know it's interesting, because...발음듣기
대기중
Steven: Exactly right, this is an expression of the interior but, sort of funny, is that in the next generation some artists will begin to disavow that.발음듣기
대기중
Steven: Right, because this is seen as a kind of psycho-analytic heroism growing out of the European surrealism, etc.발음듣기
대기중
Growing out of Jung, out of Freud but in a kind of purely American idiom, native American kind of scale this sort of grandeur and space.발음듣기
대기중
Beth: That sort of statement that art is about, is not about some kind of inner psychic state, right.발음듣기
대기중
Steven: But, this is in some ways a very beautiful and expressive kind of romanticism in that way, isn't it?발음듣기
대기중
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